EPISODE 120: The Life Work & Legacy of Mavis Pittilla with Jean Else | Ann Theato

In this deeply personal and historically important episode of Psychic Matters, Ann Théato is joined by Jean Else, the wife, partner and closest collaborator of the late Mavis Pittilla, one of the most influential and respected teachers of mediumship of the modern era.

Together, they explore the life, work and legacy of Mavis Pittilla, going beyond the public figure to reveal the woman shaped by war, loss, humility and unwavering service. From her early years as a mill girl in the north of England, through illness, spontaneous mediumistic awakening and decades of teaching, this conversation offers a rare and intimate insight into how Mavis understood mediumship not as performance or gift, but as responsibility, discipline and service to two worlds. 

Jean shares first-hand accounts of Mavis’ training, her philosophy of evidence, ethics and trust, her relationship with Gordon Higginson, and her lasting impact on the Arthur Findlay College and the wider mediumship community. They also explore how mediumship evolves over time, the importance of understanding consciousness, and why belief and humility sit at the heart of exceptional work.

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in the craft, ethics and future of mediumship, and for those who wish to understand why Mavis Pittilla’s influence continues to shape the standard of mediumship today

You’ll Learn

• Why Mavis Pittilla viewed mediumship as a faculty and responsibility, not a gift or performance
• How early life experiences shaped her humility, empathy and teaching style
• What Mavis believed separated average mediumship from truly exceptional communication
• Why service, ethics and evidence were non-negotiable in her work
• How mediumship evolves over time within an individual medium
• The role of belief, trust and consciousness in sustained, reliable mediumship
• How Mavis’ legacy continues to influence teaching standards today 

 

This Week’s Episode

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Episode 120 Resources

Mavis PIttilla Link:
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Ann Théato, Psychic, Medium and Spiritual Tutor, investigates psychic development, mediumship techniques, and paranormal science, so that you can come to understand your own innate psychic ability and expand your knowledge, whilst learning to develop a curious mind.

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Transcript

VO: Psychic Matters with Ann Théato. The top ranked spirituality podcast.

 

Ann: Some people don't just walk through this world, they shape it. They shift paradigms, ignite purpose in others, and leave behind a legacy that transforms everything they touch. Mavis Pittilla was one of those people, a true pioneer in the world of mediumship, she redefined what it meant to serve spirit, not through ego, but through grace. 

 

Humble, wise and deeply devoted. She never sought fame yet became a guiding light for thousands across the globe. Through her teaching, her public work and her unwavering presence, she raised the standard for mediumship. I was honoured to call her my tutor, and like so many others, I carry her influence in my heart and in my work. 

 

And today, we celebrate the life, work and legacy of Mavis Pittilla, and we do so with someone who knew her best, her beloved wife, Jean. And together we'll go beyond the public figure and into the soul of this remarkable woman. What made her such a powerful force? How did she change the landscape of mediumship and what lessons does she leave behind for all of us? This is The Life, Work and Legacy of Mavis Pittilla and Jean Else, welcome to Psychic Matters.  

 

Jean: Thank you very much. What a beautiful introduction.  

 

Ann: Ah, it's so exciting to be able to speak to you today, Jean, not just about Mavis, but also about the wonderful support that you've been to her over the years. So, let's start Jean by asking what do you think the world needs to understand, not just about Mavis' work, but about the woman behind it?  

 

Jean: Well, you, you quite succinctly described it then. She was very humble. She didn't do her mediumship or, or work with mediumship for fame. She worked because she felt she was serving both worlds. And she always said she was about her Father's business. She had a deep respect for God, the Great Spirit, the Universal Intelligence, whatever title you would give to God these days. But she knew that, you know, the task of mediumship, was divinely given to her. She never saw it as a gift. She saw it as a faculty. She only saw it as a gift when it was given to others. But she did feel that she was serving both the spirit world and the people on the Earth. And that it brought healing to the two worlds. 

 

Ann: And of course, she came from very humble beginnings, didn't she, Mavis, tell us a little bit about her early days. 

 

Jean: She was a war baby actually. She was born just when the war broke out. And sadly, her father went off to fight in the war. He didn't need to do, 'cause he was in a, a protected, um, profession. So, he didn't need to join the army but his brothers had gone off to fight and, you know, typical man, he decided he must do and left Mum with baby Mavis. I think he was there when he, I'm sure he was there when she was born, but soon after he, he joined the army and went, went away. Um, so she was brought up by her mother during those war years in an area called Middleton, which is in northern England. And it was quite close to Manchester, which was quite heavily bombed during World War II. 

 

So, it was quite a frightening place to be for a mother. Mavis had two older sisters. One of them by this stage had already joined the Land Army or something like that. So, she was much older and the other one was still at home. And I think she was about six or seven years older than Mavis. So, Mavis' mother had the two of them together during this very difficult period. 

 

So, she grew very close to her mother 'cause she was doted on obviously during those very difficult years. And so, when her father came back from the war, and sadly he was in Dunkirk, which as we all know was a terrible place to be. He came back quite badly injured. In fact, they didn't find him for months. All the small boats obviously went out to Dunkirk to bring back the soldiers. And he ended up in Ireland in a, in a, some kind of hospital or cared by, by nuns. And it was only through sheer luck that Mavis' mother, found him again. But when she did get him home, uh, he was a stranger to Mavis and she found it very difficult to settle with this strange man who was not only her father, but also a very badly injured man. So, it was a difficult relationship. And by that time, she would've been about six or seven, and sadly, he died when she was nine because ultimately, he ended up with cancer as well. So, it was a disturbing childhood. And at one stage she was sent away. When he came back, she was sent away to school, uh, because some organisation provided, uh, school places for children of, of disabled soldiers. 

 

Uh, and she found that difficult being away from her mother. So, you know, she had quite a, a traumatic period of time and it did impact on her for the rest of her life. She hated school all the way through. So, we never knew why she married her teacher, which I've been all my life, which was an interesting combination. 

 

Um, but she, she was always told at school, even at the local school, that she wasn't as good as her sisters. So, she had that put down from very early on and it remained with her, there's no doubt about that, throughout her life. So, she, that's why she never saw herself as, you know, better than or anything different from, she always thought, well, she always asked the question, why is this happening to me? How can this mill girl, 'cause she did work in the cotton mills for a while, how does this mill girl end up doing what I'm doing? And, and especially when she was traveling the world and working. So, yeah. So, uh, it's very interesting how those early years do impact on someone. 

 

Ann: Yeah.  

 

Jean: But they remain there, don't they? 

 

Ann: They do. And I think that's why she was so encouraging to her students. So, although that was traumatic for her to experience the put downs at school, she took that into her teaching and she never made you feel stupid or she never made you feel like any question was wrong. She was so supportive in that way. 

 

Jean: Yeah. Well, I'm quoting now something that I've just watched fairly recently on one of the videos that I recorded of Mavis working and she's telling the students the reason she was like that is because she'd been there, done it and worn the t-shirt, which obviously is a very British expression, but she'd been through it all 'cause she'd been terrified to begin with. 

 

Uh, although she had a very different start to her mediumship, which was spontaneous and I'm sure we'll talk about that further. So, she didn't have to go through the trials of, having to make a, a communication with the spirit world from basically nothing because it happened spontaneously, but she understood the stress of it and she understood that it wasn't an exact science, and so nobody's going to get it all right. 

 

So, yes, she was very sympathetic. Some of her students might say as they advanced, she became more, more rigorous and more demanding. Uh, but nevertheless, that was for the right reasons, 'cause she wanted it right for the medium, but she wanted it even better for the people in the spirit world. And she didn't want the medium's mind coming in and telling a story when the person in the spirit world, the real people in the spirit world, which is what she always emphasised, could tell that story themselves. 

 

Ann: Yeah, exactly. But just going back before we speak about her mediumship, which I'm really excited to get to, let's just cover a little bit about her being a mill girl, 'cause some people may not understand what that is or was, or what she did.  

 

Jean: Yeah, okay. Well, she was very proud of being a mill girl, which meant that she worked in the cotton mills, which were very extensive in the north of England. Apparently, we've got this lovely damp climate, so cotton was very easy to manipulate. And around the area where Mavis lived and indeed where I lived originally, um, there were lots and lots of cotton mills and many people from whole families worked in these cotton mills. And Mavis did follow her mother into the cotton mill. 

 

Now, she actually only worked there for about two years, but she remained that cotton mill girl in her mind all her life because from her perspective, it was the only job she could do because she really hadn't got an education. Now, obviously, I know the intelligent, bright wordsmith, but Mavis never saw herself as that. And so, she worked in the cotton mill, but she maintains that was a very good training environment for what happened later in life, when she actually had to communicate with the spirit, because the noise was so horrendous, you couldn't hear anybody speak. They used to lip read and they, they were very protective of one another. 

 

Mainly women working in the cotton mill. The overseers, however, were mainly men and sometimes they treated some of Mavis' friends and colleagues very badly. And if they did, you know, either, either professionally badly or sexually badly in those days, which was, you know, commonplace, then all the girls ganged together to help the one that was in trouble. 

So, she loved the camaraderie, she loved the friendship, she loved, she loved everything about it. She did eventually leave because her mother left to work for another organisation that had set up close by. So, so she was there about two years, but again, like, like her childhood and her schooling, that had a major impact on the rest of her life too. After which she eventually married and moved to Australia. So, that was the total change in, in working environment for a while.  

 

Ann: And that was difficult for her, wasn't it, moving to Australia.  

 

Jean: Yeah, I mean, I, I've had this conversation with Mavis so many times. It's hard for me to, to understand why someone who was so close to her mother and she really was very close, could move to Australia. And in those days, they went on what was called a 10-pound ticket. ‘Cause Australia wanted British people to go and work in Australia. And so, you only had to pay 10 pound and you were put on a boat and you sailed for about six weeks to Australia. Now the thought of Mavis leaving her mother at that stage, is hard to understand, but she must have been more in love, I would guess, uh, rather than mourning her mother. But when she got there, uh, the whole story changed. It was a nightmare for her. She hated it. She realised just how far away from her mother she was. She had hallucinations, she would see her mother at the end of the road and run to her, and it was heartbreaking. 

But they had to stay for two years before they could come back home or they had to pay the full fare. So, she stayed there, but she hated every second of it. And as soon as she could, she left her husband there who'd settled in very well into Australia and came home with her son then, 'cause her son had been born out there. So, yeah, another traumatic experience, but as Mavis always says, and again, this is part of her teaching, you know, these experiences help the spirit world because they've got something to work on with you that you understand and you empathise with. So, she always saw every experience, something that was really giving, um, her platform for the spirit world to work with. And if you like, something in her subconscious mind or toolbox that was available for the spirit world, which is a nice way to look at it, but I don't think any of us really want to go through those traumas. 

 

Ann: Yeah. 

 

Jean: But we all do. We all do, don't we? 

 

Ann: Yeah.  

 

Jean: You know, no, nobody has a, an easy life. I don't know. 

  

Ann: Nobody has an easy life. Everybody's got their challenges. So, what does she do then Jean, when she got back from Australia, she's got her young son. What does she do then, and how, how does mediumship start to arrive in her life?  

 

Jean: So, when she came back, she moved in with her sister Joyce and her husband and uh, with her son. And that was fine for a while. Joyce had got three children and it worked all right until eventually she was asked to leave because she was upsetting Joyce, not through bad behaviour or anything else, but she was being too tidy and Joyce was not of that nature, and Mavis was a fanatic about cleaning and washing and ironing and all those things.  So, she was asked to leave and for a period of time she moved back in with her mother. But eventually she did meet another man, uh, a gentleman called Terry, who she married. And Terry and their son Ian, uh, moved together and then suddenly she became very ill and nobody had any idea why. And, uh, eventually it was diagnosed as cancer and she was given three months to live. 

 

And within that three months, she was a very, uh, Christian person, Mavis. She went to what was known as the High Church of England, which is akin to Catholicism really, um, it's only Henry VIII that stopped it being Cath Catholicism. So, she really had this firm belief in God and Jesus and so on and so forth. 

 

And one day she said, she was just sitting at home saying to God, why me, having an argument with God, just got married, new home, new mortgage, and so on, why me? And then suddenly an ordinary man just in a plain shirt, open neck appeared in front of her out of nowhere and said, go find a healer or you won't hear the New Year bells, and he disappeared immediately. So, she did, you know, and I'm sure we can all imagine this, she didn't know whether she'd really seen it or she'd imagined it. And she was on a lot of medication at the time. So, when Terry came home from work, he asked obviously how she'd been and she told him and they put it down to drugs. They put it down to the medication she was on. But the next day he goes into work and his friend at work said, how's Mavis? And he told him this story and this gentleman said, I'm a spiritual healer. Amazing. And so, from then on, she started to see this healer and uh, but she was also under conventional medicine. And Mavis would always maintain, you've got to combine the two. She believed the people in the medical field at any stage received, if you like, droplets from God. So, they were being trained on how to work and diagnose. So, she would never ignore the medical profession. So, alongside the two, it was eventually discovered that she'd got TB of the kidney and it wasn't cancer at all. 

 

So, once they found that out, and that's another long story, um, once they found that out, they were able to treat her. It took her a long time to get well, but at the same time, she was constantly now seeing the spirit world. So, everywhere she went, she, there were people from the spirit world there, or in her own home. People would come to visit and she'd say, oh, you can't sit there my grandma's there and grandma had been dead 20 years. And uh, but she didn't know how to switch it off. So, that's really how the journey began.  

 

Ann: It's extraordinary. She couldn't share that with her Mum, did you say earlier on?  

 

Jean: Well, as a child, eventually she did. 

 

Ann: As a child. 

 

Jean: Yeah, as a grownup. She did. Her mother still didn't want to know anything about it. 

 

Ann: Right. 

 

Jean: Um, but yeah, no, by this time she couldn't hide it 'cause she was telling her mother and, and her husband and, and the son as well about the things she was seeing, but she didn't understand it all. And, and she literally could objectively see and hear, you know, so she was picking up some interesting information and she said she lost a lot of friends because she would, you know, either tell them that their relatives were there, not realising about the morals and ethics of it in those days. Or she would know who was having an affair with who. And, you know, and some people didn't want that revealed. So, uh, quite a, again, a stressful time. And then eventually, um, the healer gave her some advice on how she might maintain some semblance of control and sent her to a local spiritualist church. And that's where she went and met her first teacher, a wonderful man called Mr. Brooks.  

 

Ann: Beautiful. And so, she continues to attend that spiritualist church with Mr. Brooks. And is this how she comes to learn how to control her, her faculty?  

 

Jean: Yeah. Uh, Mr. Brooks was not a medium, but he was the president of this church, and this church was literally a converted house, a small, terraced house in Middleton where she lived uh, and, but he, he ran a church there and he was her best teacher and she loved him very much indeed. She didn't at first, 'cause she said he was very stern looking, and in those days, she always used to describe herself as in a miniskirt with her hair piled on the top. And so, who was this young woman that was coming in and, um, but he did train her. And he and he obviously talked at length about what was happening and eventually, uh, she wanted to go and demonstrate her mediumship 'cause she'd seen other mediums do it, but he wouldn't let her do that until she learned what service was. So, she had to do the flowers, she had to make the refreshments, she had to clean the toilets, she had to give the hymn books out. She had to do everything first to understand what service was first. And then he allowed her to work and, and one or two of the older mediums took her out with them. And she's some very funny stories to tell about that, you know, again, a lot of the spiritualist churches were in old houses then. And she said on one occasion, they used to have to put a rail in front of Mavis or something that covered the rail because her, her skirts were so short and, uh, on one occasion. And then the platform, of course was built up, as you can imagine, quite high in the front of a living room so that you could have chairs in. And she said she'd seen dead mice on her chair. She'd seen spiders on the ceiling and was bothered about them going in her hair. And she worked with one woman, the first time she was taken out, I can't remember this lady's name, but, um, she was an old lady and she wore a little, a little knitted hat. And so, she said Mavis could do two contacts. So, Mavis got up and, sorry, she didn't define the number of contacts. She said Mavis could work first. So, Mavis only managed two contacts 'cause that was her first time out. And then this lady stood up and there must have been about 30 in the congregation. And she said, now who's not had a message? And they all put their hands up and she, and she went through them one by one saying A red rose for you, the 23rd psalm for you. And she knocked them all off like that. No evidence whatsoever. So, that was Mavis' first induction. Um, but again, eventually she started working in the churches and became very popular in the area. 

 

And, uh, then eventually a lovely couple called Mr. And Mrs. Hyde, who used to run Hyde Church, which is in Ashton, which was probably about 40 minutes away from where Mavis lived, knew Gordon Higginson very well and they introduced Mavis to Gordon and they always said that was their worst mistake, because Gordon took Mavis away from all the local churches then and took her down to the College and, and then Gordon obviously became her tutor, mentor and friend then. 

 

Ann: I think it's just fascinating, it's such a wonderful story and you tell it so well on her behalf Jean, you really do. I was really struck by what you said about she had to learn what service was. That really struck a chord with me when you were saying that 'cause we don't do that these days, do we? We, we don't really truly understand that, that aspect, and I think it's really important. 

 

Jean: It drove Mavis mad, really latterly, that so many people just wanted to be mediums for the fame and for the notoriety, and even for the money in many cases, 'cause Mavis, even at the end, would only charge the maximum of £50 for a private sitting, you know, so she wasn't the kind that was ever about the money. And thankfully, you know, as, as we began to grow our work together, um, we were able to then make our money in other ways so that we could then in every, every church she served, she never asked for petrol or for any contribution or anything but, because that was Mavis' nature, you know, and it was where she'd been brought up and the churches were still, Mavis', if you like, favourite place to work. She really loved the reverence of the churches and so on. But no, in terms of service, uh, very, very important for Mavis to understand, you know, where you fit into this miracle of communication because it is a miracle and it shouldn't be about serving your ego. She would honestly say though, Ann, that in the early days when, especially when she started working at the College, you know, and people were telling her that she was good. She used to say, I had a head as big as Birkenhead, which is a, a, a little, it's near Liverpool, um, and it's called Birkenhead. And there is a Spiritualist church there. But she said it was so big, she said, and her other favourite quote was from Catherine Cookson, who you will probably know is a, a Northeastern writer of turn-of-the-century romantic fiction really, and one of Mavis favourite authors. And she used to say to all her students, God is a blind Miller and he grinds us all exceedingly small, so that we make good food for other people. And that was one of her favourite quotes from Catherine Cookson. And she said it to every group she worked with, you know. So, if you're here for the fame, if you're here to just get known, you're not on the right course with us, you know, and, and, and that was absolutely her foundation and she never waved from that. However, there are always mavericks and you get one or two that come along and, you know, one or two that claim they've been trained by Mavis Pittilla when they've, they've spent a couple of days with her and so on. And especially now with, you know, following her sad death, although we know she's still alive, it doesn't, it doesn't take away the pain of the physical, but it is some kind of solace, really. But there are people now that claim Mavis has trained them, and I know full well they've never been trained by Mavis. 

 

But we knew that would happen because people used to say it's about Gordon too. So, you know, we, you, it's one of those things you live with, but all Mavis' real students will be humble, will be doing it for the right reasons and, and taking Mavis legacy forward, you know, and, and that's something that I'm very grateful for and I know Mavis and I are very proud of as well. 

 

Ann: Yeah. Yeah. It's, she's, she was amazing. Absolutely an amazing teacher. So, she goes on to the Arthur Findlay College, she's been taken under the wing of wonderful Gordon Higginson. I know we could talk forever, uh, Jean, of course. But we need to try to, um, or I certainly need to try to work out where we are going with this, because there's so much to cover. But I know she goes to the Arthur Findlay College and she becomes a senior tutor there, doesn't she, Jean?  

 

Jean: Yeah, she still, he took her down to the college when she was still in recovery from her illness actually. And he just used to say, you know, just lie in the blue room. Um, many people that have been to the college will know that and just receive healing really. Uh, but eventually, obviously she became well enough and, uh, used to sit in the lectures and as she said, in those days you didn't, there were no workshops, you just sat in lectures all day and talks and, um, nobody demonstrated, uh, and, and obviously there were a lot of well-known tutors from the old days there, including, obviously Gordon as the President, but a lot of, uh, of other well-known mediums. And she said it fascinated her, but she found it difficult to just sit and she said, if you were lucky, at the end of the day, one of the tutors might say, and you three come up and, and demonstrate. And she said, and the first time that happened to her, she was a wreck. But then she knew she loved it, you know, and, and eventually obviously with, she traveled the length and the breadth of the country with Gordon, and so it wasn't just at the College. And so, she, she learned, she said she learned more driving in the car with him, not only about the, the mechanics of mediumship, but the philosophy of mediumship. And she said they used to have some wonderful, wonderful discussions. And so eventually, uh, she did start to work with Gordon at the College and when Gordon decided that he wasn't going to organise any more weeks at the college, he actually handed over to Mavis, his favourite weeks. So, she actually became the kind of, um, guardian of Gordon's courses and she introduced group work. It was Mavis that actually introduced it for the first time ever. And uh, he didn't like it at all, but obviously that's the foundation of the work that goes on at the College now. And, uh, after a number of years, she was asked to be the Senior Tutor there, and she was very honoured to do that. It didn't, however, entirely suit her because Mavis was not a committee person. She wasn't, um, she wasn't a a, an organiser in the sense of she was a, a creator. She was a a, a motivator. She was an encourager but sit her down with paperwork in front of her or to talk in a committee and she hated it. So that didn't last very long, 'cause it needed someone that had more of a kind of organisational structure than Mavis, you know? 

But nevertheless, she was honoured that she did do that for a while. And obviously she worked at the College for, you know, I'm just trying to think over 40 years, which is an awful long time took for anyone to work. And she's been serving the churches for over 55 years. So, I mean, that's an amazing legacy. I don't think many people will ever exceed that.  

 

And, uh, you know, with, with two months before she died, she was doing her last church service. We obviously didn't know it was going to be the last, but you know, she did it. And uh, and she was teaching really online with me to, up to two weeks before she died. She wasn't on screen because she'd been on steroids. So, uh, she didn't look like the Mavis, you now see behind me. Um, but nevertheless, she couldn't not intervene and tell the students what she thought. And of course, they really loved her for that as well.  

 

Ann: Yeah, that's just wonderful. And that is a huge and amazing legacy, isn't it? And actually, she's been honoured at the Arthur Findlay College with her portrait on the wall. Has she not?  

 

Jean: Underneath Gordon, yes, just 'cause I've got photographs of Mavis at the College standing under Gordon's photograph. And we never, never envisaged that Mavis would be there. So yeah. Very honoured to, to have Mavis there. And she's also got her portrait in Lilydale. Um, and she's also got her portrait in the Fox sisters schoolhouse at Hydesville. So, she's been honoured in, in all those places. So, it's rather wonderful to know but the College is obviously the Mecca for Mavis.  

 

Ann: Yeah, yeah, of course. And also, it really does help us as students when we go there and we stand in the library and we look at Mavis and we look at Gordon and all the pioneers on the wall. It helps us to remember their teachings and their tuition. It helps us to feel calm and to be able to work 'cause they, it's like they give us their power from the portrait almost.  

 

Jean: Yeah, I, I'm sure that's, I'm sure that's true. I, I mean, I've made a pilgrimage each year since her portrait was, um, unveiled there, down on Open Week, just to kind of keep my link with the College and with Mavis there. Although obviously she's around me all the time at home. But I still think it's lovely to see her in the library 'cause I know she loved the library, uh, as did Gordon, it was his favourite room. And she'd experienced some wonderful, um, times with Gordon there when he sat for, for trance and physical. So, the library was very important. But I always remember when Mavis was working in the library, I'd look at Gordon and you always have this sense from that portrait of Gordon that he was watching you, you could almost see him smiling and so on. And, and I'm sure that that's what people will experience with Mavis too, you know? So, yeah, very, very special. 

 

Ann: Yeah. Jean. What do you think Mavis believed separated an average medium from a, a really exceptional medium?  

 

Jean: Belief, trust, knowing that you were working with real people, not somebody that was just floating around on a cloud. It drove her mad with people that said they're stepping forward, she used to say, where are they stepping forward from, they're already here, the only reason that we can't see them is 'cause we haven't opened up to, to blend with them, we haven't, you know, extended our auric field to feel that blending, but they're not stepping forward, they're already with us. So, but in terms of Mavis, the understanding of service. That, you know, a, a good medium understands that they're serving both worlds. And a, a good medium understands that it's the conversation and the communication with the person in the spirit world, rather than it just being the mechanics of head, mediumship and snatching. She always believed that a good medium, you would feel the essence of the communicator. You'd feel the love. You'd feel the fun, you'd feel everything about that communicator. And, you know, I've seen Mavis demonstrate beautifully where, you know, she'd have the audience laughing because of the character of someone, and then the next minute they'd be crying because of the, you know, the, the empathy and the, you know, the, the closeness between the communicator and their loved one. So, that I think was the main difference uh, and, and you know, some of that is natural with a good medium, but some of it is the craft and delivery. And uh, you know, again, those egotistical ones that just want to be showing off about how good they are, drove her mad. And, and of course they're not doing it for the right reasons, then they're doing it for themselves. 

 

So, that would be the big difference. As far as average medium's concerned, you know, um, Gordon used to say to her, and this is really interesting, when you talked about the quality of mediumship and the characters of mediums, he would say, now this is going back in time. If you were wanting to send a letter and the only envelope you had to put that letter in was a creased and dirty envelope, would you still use it? And of course, the answer is yes 'cause it's the only envelope. Um, and he always maintained is, well the spirit world sometimes has to use people that are not the best because sometimes there's such a need for that communication that they'll work with anyone, you know? So, he, he firmly believed that. But obviously from Gordon's perspective, he was an entertainer. But he did it again for the right reasons 'cause he, he never took any money. When Gordon died, his desk at Longton church was full of cheques that people had sent him for work that he'd done that he never cashed in, 'cause he wasn't doing it for that either. 

 

Um, you know, and that's quite a remarkable story. And she loved him so much. Um, so she followed in his footsteps really. And average mediums can get better. And that was part and parcel of Mavis training really. And, but you can only get better if you've got the desire to do it properly. If the desire is only about, you know, being known for it and being patted on the back, then that's not, uh, that's not Mavis' way. 

 

Ann: Yeah, and what did she think Jean, about our responsibility as mediums?  

 

Jean: Huge, you know, and she talked about in her early days, um, going along to mediums, so-called mediums or psychics with a friend who'd had a, a, a, an accident at work. And she said they were only young. She didn't understand really what was going on. And the psychic said to sue the company that she worked for because, uh, she would get some money if she sued the company. And, uh, they go along to another medium. And that's confirmed by the other psychic. More psychic than medium. And eventually she did, she mortgaged a house to sue the company and she was a single parent, and she lost and she lost everything. And so, Mavis always used to use that as an example of not to believe what everything that you're told, you know, because the, the spirit world can only give you a glance into the future. And the psychic, if they can't read your past, can never predict your future. And a lot of psychics can't read the past. She could read somebody from pre-birth, she could read them from in the womb if the, if the recipient knew what the mother's pregnancy was like and the birth, then Mavis, she, she didn't ask them to tell her. Mavis would tell them about it. And she could read right the way up to the present time. She didn't believe people got the training that she had with Gordon because he was a hard task master in making her, in those days, do diagnosis and, and everything. 

 

So, she'd been trained so thoroughly and it did become her lifetime work. And she would honestly say she had neglected family, uh, because it became such an obsession. And she always talks now, and she, again, I've got beautiful videos of her talking about know yourself and safeguarding your family, because in hindsight, she would've done more to do that because it just become an obsession with people. 

 

But the moral and ethical aspect of mediumship for Mavis was key and is a big part of the programme that we developed together. And again, all Mavis trained mediums have that at the forefront of their mind all the time. And that's key.  

 

Ann: Yeah. What did she say then to those, um, who might be listening to this or watching it, who are struggling to trust their mediumship? What would Mavis' advice be there for them?  

 

Jean: Right, very interesting this, um, 'cause I've just edited a video where I talk about it. Oh. So, every, everything you're asking me is, has, has more recently come to my mind. Obviously, I've filmed Mavis over all these years, never watched the films or listened to them again 'cause I had Mavis with me. And it's only now that obviously I'm, I'm going through them all. Um, for those that, uh, that the, the trust and the belief is key, but the conscious mind interferes with that all the time. So, Mavis did a beautiful lecture called The Lion and the Lamb. And obviously that's a biblical saying that the lion shall lie down with the lamb and Mavis used that as a metaphor for saying that the soul mind, in other words, the whole of everything contained within your soul, the spark of God, all the clairs within your soul is the soul mind and that soul mind is the lamb, the gentle lamb that we use. Doesn't shout at us, it's just there for us if we seek it. The lion is the conscious mind that roars and it's negative, and it, who, who do you think you are to be doing this? And you know, you've got that wrong again, I wouldn't bother... you know, the conscious mind is what destroys everything, but you can't eliminate the conscious mind. So, you've got to get the conscious mind, the lion, to lie down with the lamb. So, she always advocated mediums, she, she believed very much, obviously in the power of the aura 'cause she saw auras very clearly. She said she's never seen a perfect one, but she could read the colours of everybody. And, uh, a medium that's working just in the mind, the aura surrounds the head. All the way around, not just out at the side, all the way around, like a dive, the old-fashioned diver's helmet. And so, she would know if a medium was just working from the mind. And of course, if you are working just from the mind, you don't get the clairsentience, you don't get the empathy from their heart, you don't get the essence of the person. So, she would always say, you know, you've got to get that trust and belief, that then occupies the conscious mind because if you are concentrating on build, she used to talk about in the early days, building the power up through the chakras for people that are just learning, although ultimately, she said you would just switch the power on like that.  

 

So, she would always talk about building up the power through the chakras, going through the clairs and feeling, if you like, the clairsentience, and then the empathy through the heart, the claircognisance, the clairaudience in your throat, and obviously the clairvoyance. But feeling that auric field pushing out as broadly and as widely as you could, to, to encompass the spirit world and almost feel as though you're putting your arm around the person in the spirit and bringing them in, and obviously encompassing either your private sitting recipient or your audience if you're doing a demonstration, that then occupies the conscious mind because you're not thinking you are doing. 

 

And if you can do that, then you get the harmony of the lion lying down with the lamb. And that would then, obviously bring the spirit world closer to you, so that that conversation could go on. She believed that mediumship was a conversation. She believed as well, um, well, she knew that a lot of her mediumship was claircognisance. So, you know, she, in the old days she did have objective clairaudience and objective clairvoyance. And then that changed. But that's another long story. That changed to become subjective. So, she did see clairvoyantly subjectively, she obviously felt a lot clairsentiently, but it was the, the three working together with the claircognisance and the drop in, that told the whole story. And if you watch Mavis work it, it's just a continuous conversation. And it's beautiful to see and it's rare to see I think that, but that would be Mavis advice for getting that belief. You've got to work on, you know, really understanding the soul inside of you. That really contains everything that we need in terms of communication with the spirit world. 

 

Ann: It's just fabulous. It's so interesting. It fascinates me and it gives me thousands more questions, but I was thinking about what you were saying about um, mediumship evolving and how she, she used to have this objective clairvoyance, Jean, um, and it changed over time, and I'm thinking about my own mediumship from when I began, when I used to literally feel a person standing right behind me here, and then I'd see them in my mind and I'd be able to project that out onto the wall. That was used to be how I started my mediumship. Now it's so subtle. The, it's like this little etheric whisper that comes in. I see the tiniest piece of information and it begins to move into my awareness from there, it's very subtle, I have to listen carefully and I have to watch my micro movements in my own mediumship to see what my body's doing, that informs what the spirit person's trying to tell me. So, there's something to be said for, and I'm interested on Mavis view on how mediumship evolves within a person. And then of course, as she's been working so long, she must have seen it evolve over the decades as as a craft, because it's different now, surely in 2025 then it was in the sixties.  

 

Jean: Absolutely. And she would always say, um, in 50 years from now, my students will be saying, Mavis Pittilla used to think this, but now we know. So, and her thinking changed from Gordon too. Yeah, it's got to evolve and, and clearly, um, you know, because it's more widely accepted, because it's on the media, uh, obviously that's changed some of it. And we know that in many circumstances on the media, it's widely edited and, you know, and it's not necessarily genuine, but that's what people want to see. But in terms of the normal medium shall we say, if mediums are normal, uh, yeah, it evolves uniquely for everyone. So obviously you are, you are detecting yours and I think that's the most important thing to say. Mavis would always say, keep a journal. And, and she did that for, she always says about 17 years or something like that. But she still, you know, I've got diaries of her, you know, in the, in the last few years where she'd be jotting things down because things changed with her. And she would, you know, sometimes come off a platform and I'd say, oh, that was fantastic. She'd say, no, it was like pulling teeth. But she was so good at the craft and delivery, nobody knew that um, but she knew it. And of course, she would then try and analyse why. So, I think understanding your own mediumship, knowing that it's going to change, because the way it changed with Mavis, she went to serve a local church in Moston, which wasn't far from where she lived. And she gets on the platform and she said, I'm an objective medium. I see the spirit world. Just as I'm seeing you. I hear the spirit world just as I'm listening to you. And then starts the demonstration. Nothing. She got nothing. And then all of a sudden, she got a series of pictures in her mind. So, for the first time, it had become subjective and everything went subjective in that moment. 

 

And she said if, if the platform could have opened up and she could have dropped through it, she would've done. But she persevered and she talked about a lady that had a, a stooped back that used to work somewhere where she had to wear her hairnet and she was seeing her own mother working somewhere. And, and, um, and she said, and she saw a row of Crawford cream crackers, which the British will know were the old-fashioned crackers that you'd have with cheese or something like that. And she saw them stacked on a shelf behind this lady and, and she just said, and the name Crawford is very important. She gave it as she saw it, and a lady put her hand up and said, yes, that's my mother. Whereas Mavis had seen her own mother and they did have a shop eventually. So, she'd seen the shop and the, and the row. So, hers changed like that. So, then she had to really work hard to now not only see it, but interpret it, but give it as she'd got it, 'cause obviously the biggest problem with most mediums is they try and work it out, or they don't give it exactly as they're seeing it, you know, and she used a wonderful example, and I don't know whether this will be relevant, but she always used to say that no one would ever give her a special word that her grandfather had for her, 'cause they would think, I'm not giving that it's stupid. And her grandfather, who was gassed in World War I, um, and was blind, only knew Mavis as a little girl. And he only knew by the sound of her feet coming in the house that it was Mavis. And he used to call her Marajack. And of course, if anybody got that word, they'd never give it. And the reason he called her Marajack, is because he used to send her to the local shop to buy what was called a Marajack card, and it was a little cardboard envelope if you like. And, and I don't know how much they paid for it, sixpence or something in those days, and she'd bring it back to grandfather and grandma would open it 'cause he couldn't see. And she'd tell him the name of a horse that he'd now bet on in a race. So, say, I'm going to say, say it had Red Rum in, which obviously is a, a, a later horse in England. But, uh, he, that he then listened to the radio for that race to see whether his horse had come in. So, Mavis became Marajack. It never was Mavis. So, and she always maintained that, uh, that's what, uh, the medium would deny immediately. I'm not giving Mavis that that name, it's stupid. And that's the problem, isn't it? 

 

And we all used to wonder with Houdini when he went, you know, railed against mediumship even though he'd been a big follower, because he never got the nickname or the code word from his mother. And Mavis and I always said, probably the medium just wouldn't give it 'cause they'd think it was silly; you know? 

 

And it's so easy, isn't it, to take. Whereas Mavis believed you should just give what it is and if you get a no, there's no harm in getting a no. She always believed if every, if mediums got all yeses, then they were fraudulent or the recipient was one of those that was just taking any message that they could, you know, so ... 

 

Ann: Yeah, that's interesting. That's reassuring as well, I think for people listening. I remember I did, oh, it's such a shame I couldn't do a longer course with her, but I did do a six-week course with you and with Mavis was what I learned there has just stayed with me all of my life since then and I pass onto my students. 

But, um, you know, when you're in a class and Mavis would say, right, who's gonna work? And there'd be a silence, we'd all be looking down. And, uh, she'd say, listen, this is like a party with the spirit world. So, get up here and start working. Uh, and it was great. She just was really reassuring in that way. I just remember that strongly about her, that reassurance. 

 

Jean: Yeah. And she always thought she'd never work online. And yet we started working online long before lockdown. We started doing about 2016, 2017 online. But I had to convince her 'cause she was getting requests from all over the world for private sittings. And she always just used to like doing the private sittings in our dining room at home. And people would come here and, uh, but you know, I, I persuaded her, if I said, if I make them experimental and we don't charge anyone, will you try them? So, she did 17 private sittings to prove to herself that it worked. And, and eventually she said, well, I could feel them here, or I could see them, you know, with the recipient. And it worked wonderfully. And from then on, we went on to teaching online. In, in those days it was Skype, before Zoom but we used to use that. But we also did an experimental sitting with a friend of ours in Holland who had a, a, a small teaching group of his own. And he asked me, uh, whether we could try an experiment where Mavis demonstrated from our house here in the, uh, north of England in Macclesfield to him in Amsterdam. So, we set it up and he got this, he got 20 recipients in his room in Amsterdam. And I filmed Mavis in our room and he sent me the live stream of the recipients. And I projected that onto our living room wall. And Mavis stood in, in the recess by the window, with the curtains closed behind her, and did this wonderful demonstration. And Mavis was being zoomed onto their screen in, in Amsterdam. And it was the most remarkable demonstration. And I don't know whether you remember, actually it's just come up in the news recently, but there was a, a, a, a plane full of Dutch people that were shot down by the Russians. Well, it must have been about 2016, 2017 and, uh, it, it was an accident apparently uh, uh, and, but they were nearly all Dutch people and, um, we'd never thought anything about this. But Mavis picked up this young man and she said, this young man is telling me that he was on his own when he died, but he wasn't on his own when he started his journey, which is very weird to say, isn't it? And she went on with more evidence. And then this lady stood up and again, projected on our living room wall, and she took everything and she said, yes, that's my son. And apparently, he'd been on that plane and obviously got on the plane with friends, and then it had been shot down and he, he was found obviously on the ground on his own, but more wonderful information. And the, it was just like being in a normal demonstration. So that was the first time we'd ever done it like that. And then of course, now demonstrations online are quite commonplace, aren't they? And uh, but that was, that was really exciting to do for the first time. So, um, yeah, so lots of good experiences and I think, you know, what we found with teaching online, and I'm glad that you have that good experience with Mavis, is that actually you, you can focus more, I think, sometimes on the medium online than you do in a workshop because you, your kind of distracted by other people and there's, you know, other things going on. 

And though it's nice to be together and to, you know, be able to hug one another and chat to one another, the focus on the mediumship is more intense, I think, online.  

 

Ann: Mm-hmm.  

 

Jean: Where you can really pinpoint what's needed. So, 

 

Ann: Yeah, that's a really good point. But we all have you to thank Jean and as does Mavis for being the woman behind the recordings. The woman who made, who did all the organisation and the planning and, and the, and the immense admin to get people into the classes and make everything run smoothly. So, you know, you, we, we just wanna thank you for doing all of that and capturing these things for the future. 

 

Jean: It was never, never my intention at all. And as I said right at the beginning, Mavis could never understand why she married a teacher. But I do remember when we first got, we'd known each other since 1983, so we'd known each other years and years. Uh, and I knew her husband Terry, and she knew my former partner who sadly died, um, Ross. And so, we were all friends together for a while, and then, uh, it just coincided, um, she parted from Terry and my partner had died, and in 1999 we got together properly and I was still teaching full-time then. So, I went with Mavis to demonstrations, but she'd go off to the College on her own or she'd go abroad sometimes on her own. And so, you know, I was kind of on the periphery of it, always interested in it, um, but on the periphery of it. And then eventually when I retired, I never, you know, I didn't retire thinking, oh, I'll work with Mavis now. Oh, but I should tell you first, but when we were first together, I, I then started to try and organise Mavis. It was before, you know, um, Smart TV or touch screens or anything. So, I, I bought her a lovely big container for beautiful posters I had made, you know, illustrating the aura and things. And, and all sorts of handouts. And she used to take them and just put them on a table and use 'em, she hated it. And eventually I tried to get her on, you know, using PowerPoints, but she didn't want to know. But when I retired, I never intended to do it, um, and I didn't for a few years after retirement, I did other things, uh, but then eventually it just naturally happened. 

 

So, I organised things, simple things. Some workshops with lots of other mediums, including Tony and, uh, Janet Parker and Paul and Simon and Brian. I used to organise for all of those. And then eventually, obviously, you know, I started to organise just for Mavis and uh, uh, and eventually she got into using PowerPoints with me and so, so, so it's emerged naturally. But the one thing that Mavis loved, is I never wanted to be Mavis. And she'd had so many people that were close to her that wanted to become Mavis Pittilla, the medium, and that was never any part of me. I loved doing what I was doing, it was my natural skill of organisation and teaching and uh, so we became just a lovely combination and thoroughly loved working together. So, you know, it was beneficial for us both, so... 

 

Ann: Yeah, I mean, super beneficial for both of you and super beneficial for all the students that are still to come to learn from Mavis, that's the thing.  

 

Jean: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We've, we've got a lot on our programmes already, so that, and, and what I did do and just shortly before Mavis died, I introduced a teaching course, a teaching programme, um, called Teaching the Teachers, uh, and the Mavis Pittilla programme. And, uh, 'cause we'd had a lot of people online with us through, for years and years that, you know, were in New Jersey and Boston and in this country as well. And, uh, so obviously Mavis was the one that ran all the courses, but I thought this is such a shame because they all love Mavis so much and Mavis ways. 

 

So, I introduced a teaching programme, which again was second nature for me, and it was a three-year intensive programme. And we started off with about 30 students and we ended up with 15 qualifying and, uh, but sadly I had to do the kind of, uh, graduation after Mavis died, just shortly after Mavis died because she was too poorly at the end to, to do it. Uh, but we've got those 15 teachers absolutely immersed in Mavis' ways, and they're carrying on her legacy all over the world now, which is gorgeous for me. And, uh, you know, and they're honoured to do it. And I always said to them, I can't promise you any work, um, I probably could have done when Mavis was alive, but obviously, you know, one, once Mavis had gone, I could, I didn't have the access to, uh, this resource that I have got because I'd never watched half of the films, they were just kind of stored and so on. Uh, and then suddenly an invite came along for me to run a programme based on Mavis' teachings and I was able to then incorporate all these extra teachers. So, it's been fantastic for that.  

 

Ann: Oh, that's super brilliant. And people who might be watching Jean or, or listening if they want to learn from Mavis, where can they go? How can, how can they learn from her teachings?  

 

Jean: Well, visit our website, which is just www.mavispittilla.com and all the details are on there. And we run, uh, our own, what we call Simplicity of Spirit programme, which is based on one of Gordon's titles, uh, and it's based on the beautiful snowdrop pushing up through the hard earth. So, the simplicity of that snowdrop, but the determination to push up through the worst of the winter in a natural way to, to blossom and bloom as she saw mediumship. She always believed that that's what happens with mediumship. It's a hard journey. Uh, it's not an easy one and, but she, again, one of Mavis' favourite expressions was mediumship is a pearl of great price. And just like the pearl is created by the irritation of the sand in the shell, it's only by the irritation and the hard work to become a medium that the luster of the pearl emerges, you know, so that was Mavis' philosophy. So, all our works are based on that and, uh, the programme incorporates all Mavis videos, um, talking about teaching from the beginner level, really up to the advanced level. And, uh, those are shared with all the students on the programme. And they're just fantastic. 

I mean, it's hard for me having lost her physically to not believe she's still here, 'cause every day I am editing videos, listening to her. I talk to her all the time, these photographs here. I've got huge photographs in the house, in the garden, in every room. 

And I talk to her all the time, you know, and it makes it easier to just talk because I'm watching her and seeing her. And, and I, I do always know when she responds, uh, in, in one way or another. So, um, that's a thrill for me. But the, the kind of development of the teaching and, and the teachers that teach on our courses are three British, well, one Irish and two English, um, teachers that have been with Mavis and I since about 2014. 

So, they're, they're immersed, uh, we always say if you cut them open, you'd see Mavis Pittilla written in the middle of them. So, you know, again, they, they've got the experience. They quote Mavis excessively, I suppose in some ways but once you see Mavis in action, I mean the, the, again, it's been my privilege this last two, two and a half years to re-look at all those videos that I've taken, which were never intentional, I just liked filming and, uh, to listen to them again. I only watched one yesterday that I haven't seen for ages. And it, and, and I'm learning more actually as I go on because I suppose I just sat there knowing it was my Mavis up there and enjoying listening to her 'cause she was so eloquent, wasn't she? 

 

Ann: Yeah. 

 

Jean: And such an inspiration, uh, that I really didn't take a lot of notice sometimes of, of what she was saying, but now I'm having the added bonus of being able to absorb all that and enjoy it.  

 

Ann: Yeah, that's beautiful Jean, and I wanna honour you as well for your teaching because when I did that little course with you and Mavis, your teaching was absolutely phenomenal. And so, thank you very, very much for that.  

 

Jean: That's sweet of you, thank you. Can't remember it all, but anyway.  

 

Ann: Oh well. You have such a knowledge, you see, that's, that's what's so interesting. You're such a fabulous teacher of mediumship in your own right. Yet you say you're not a medium.  

 

Jean: Yeah, and I will be receiving a kick from Mavis if I repeat that. I mean, I don't, I don't see, hear or feel spirit let me just say that. I'm naturally intuitive because I was a teacher all my life. I was probably too sensitive for Mavis sometimes, 'cause I drove her mad 'cause I knew what she was thinking. So, she never got away with anything and, and it drove her mad. So, and obviously all the knowledge I've got is through osmosis really, by being with Mavis all these years. And I suppose because I've got that natural teaching ability, you know, I, I don't just listen, I watch, I observe and, and I could, I can see where things could change in terms of craft and delivery, but I know from a, you know, from observing people work, and I still run a, a legacy practice group, um, free of charge for anybody that's worked with Mavis four times a month. And, um, a lot of the mediums that we've known over the years come on that because they, even professional mediums need somewhere they can practice.  

 

Ann (2): Yes,  

 

Jean: Its discreet, you know, because you can't practice with your students. So, uh, we have fun on that one as well, but I can tell when people are just in their head or they're making the story up or they're not delivering it properly, you know, I've got one gorgeous friend on that, uh, always says, I've got a lovely lady here, or a lovely gentleman and he drives me mad. I'll never change it. Whereas I always believe you've got to have the adjective before and you've got say, I've got this, um, vivacious, strong woman here, or this, you know, you know, use the adjective 'cause Mavis always used to do that because that's the essence of them coming through immediately. So, I can do all that kind of stuff.  

 

Ann (2): Yeah.  

 

Jean: And I do believe I've probably got more knowledge than a lot of people, but by courtesy of Mavis, by courtesy of a lot of reading, by courtesy of just being in very interested in the whole topic, which had been for many years. So...  

 

Ann: Did Mavis ever have any doubts about her own mediumship? 

 

Jean: I think she did at certain times in her life, and she did step away from mediumship twice. Once for a year and once for two years. And I think that was primarily because of life situations. But then as she said, your soul calls you back. You can't, you know, if your soul is, if this is your calling, then you can't move away from it. 

 

So, I think at certain times, yes, she had the doubts. Um, in terms of, um, certainly through our 20, nearly 25 years together, no doubts whatsoever. You know, and, and her favourite times were when she was doing her ironing 'cause she was obsessed with washing and ironing and cleaning, which I'm very grateful for. I can't say I've kept up the tradition that well, uh, our laundry room is our garage and I'm looking out now on a courtyard. So, I'm in the office, which is across from the house. The laundry is just to my side here. And she used to love going across and she used to love ironing sheets. You know, she only would've flat sheets. She wouldn't have fitted sheets. And she would have conversations with Mikosan all the time when she was doing something like that. And she'd come back to the house, you know, and, and tell me what they'd been talking about. And it would've prompted another idea for something. And so, she had that beautiful communication with her guide Mikosan, all throughout her life, really right from her journey at the beginning, because the way that Mikosan appeared, soon after that gentleman had appeared telling her to go and see a healer. Uh, she then was at home one day, just sat one evening with her husband Terry, and she just thought she'd fallen asleep. And when she woke up, Terry, she said, was white, and she said, what on Earth's the matter? And he said, I've just been talking to a Chinese gentleman. And so, she'd gone into a spontaneous trance and Mikosan had come through and told Terry all about how they were going to change the medication and how they were going to find out what the problem was. And, and so he'd been with her from then on. And, uh, so her journey into recovery was very much working with Mikosan and uh, when she was building up her strength, eventually she used to walk to some woodland near where they lived, and she would judge her improvement by walking one tree at a time and then two trees until eventually she got to somewhere that she called Old Man Tree, where she would sit and just lean and it's still there this tree, um, we took Suzanne Giesemann who wrote her book to go and see the tree, and she used to sit with her back against the tree and, and Mikosan would communicate with her then, and, you know, so he is been, he, he's been on her journey all these years, so, and I'm sure they're still on that journey together in the spirit world. 

 

Ann: That's so beautiful. It's a great story as well. It must have been so shocking for Terry.  

 

Jean: Yeah.  

 

Ann: Before we finish, Jean, we know a lot about Mavis work now through your, um, through you educating us through this beautiful interview, what about you personally with Mavis, behind the scenes, away from the public eye, you know, what is your lasting beautiful memories of her just on a more personal basis? 

 

Jean: The, a simple life really. She moved over to move in with me and, and as I've said previously, my partner had just died or not long before, and we bought the house together and I did say to Mavis, should we buy somewhere that's ours? But she never wanted to leave this house. She she'd visited many times before, so she never wanted to leave it. And she used to always say she loved living in this area, which probably is about 90 minutes away from where she used to live. And, uh, she used to all, it's in Cheshire, which is a beautiful part of England, and she always used to say it was God's country. And so, the simple life really, being at home, um, as I said, her washing, her ironing and the cleaning, if she wasn't doing her mediumship, that's what she was obsessed by. Just settling down at night with a gin and tonic and watching tv, uh, going on holiday and traveling. Obviously, we did all of that. But it was a simple life at home that Mavis liked, visiting the Garden Centre, driving into the hills in Cheshire and Derbyshire, um, she was just very contented. She loved, she never stopped loving nature. So, listening to the birds, the morning chorus, and and the birds in the trees at night. She used to always say, they're telling the little stories of what they've done during the day. And, you know, the change in the seasons, the, the, the autumn leaves, the daffodils coming up, the snowdrops and the daffodils, everything. She just, she was a real, when it, she talks about awareness a lot, Mavis in her mediumship. 'cause she really believed that awareness was key. Not only physical surroundings, but awareness of yourself and your soul. But she was constantly aware you know, she didn't miss anything, she just absorbed it and it, and she kind of found the, the joy in simple, simple things because those fed her soul, because she wasn't the person on, you know, on display then. She could just be Mavis and she could have her comfy leisure suit on and she could smoke her cigarettes 'cause she was a good smoker and uh, you know, she could just be Mavis. And, and, and that's so important. And it's interesting because when Gordon died, from when he died in 1993, from then till the Mavis has passed, she never ever got a good contact from the real Gordon. 

 

She always used to say they only bring through the teacher, the speaker, the philosopher. They never bring through the Gordon in his slippers and his cardigan who used to play the piano for her, he used to always play My Dearest Dear for her and they, and they had some such fun silly times together as well as Gordon being her teacher and her mentor and nobody ever brought that through. You know, I'm pleased to say I have again, from some of my, um, friends and colleagues that practice, uh, on, on my legacy group, some lovely snips of things that they wouldn't have known that tell me, you know, that's the real Mavis, you know, so telling me that she was a, a good speaker and, um, presenter isn't telling me about my Mavis and the one that I knew. So, uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah, there's always, I mean, people have such a life story, don't they? And, uh, she always used to say that in a mediumship teachings, don't forget that these people lived a real full life. They're not just the grandma in the kitchen now. They may have done something extra ordinary at some time in their life and we shouldn't ever forget that, and they may want to talk about it, so yeah. 

 

Yeah. But very, very special times. Um, yeah. A bond. a unique bond I think we had. 

 

Ann: Mavis Pittilla's legacy lives on today. Her teachings endure. Her love persists, and her voice resonates in the hearts of those fortunate enough to have learned from her. To those who knew her, to those who studied under her, and even to those discovering her for the first time today, she left behind a roadmap, a path to truth, to love, to spirit. 

Jean Else thank you from the depths of our hearts for sharing Mavis with the world and for carrying her legacy with such grace, such courage, and such unwavering love. It has been an honour to sit with you today and celebrate the life and work of someone so dearly loved. And to Mavis now in the spirit world, thank you, for everything. 

 

Don: You have been watching the Psychic Matters podcast with Ann Théato, the only podcast to push forward the boundaries of human consciousness to redefine the significance of living.  Subscribe now so you don't miss future episodes!