EPISODE 121: We're Doing Death Wrong: You Could Become A Tree

Discover a groundbreaking approach to memorials with Warren Roberts, founder of Living Legacy Forest. In this episode of Psychic Matters, we explore how Warren is transforming grief into life by turning human ashes into nourishment for trees. Learn how this eco-friendly method is creating beautiful forests, fostering biodiversity, and redefining the way we honour loved ones.

From the science behind safe, tree-growing ashes to the emotional and spiritual impact of living memorials, Warren shares his inspiring journey from personal loss to global environmental change. Whether you’re interested in green burial alternatives, sustainable living, or connecting with the natural world, this episode offers insight, hope, and inspiration.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How Living Legacy Forest safely converts human ashes into nutrients for trees.
• The environmental and ecological benefits of creating living memorial forests.
• The emotional and spiritual healing that comes from connecting loss to life.
• Warren’s journey from grief to creating a global movement for eco-friendly memorials.
• Practical ways families can participate in planting and maintaining a family tree.
• How living memorials differ from traditional cemeteries and cremation in sustainability.
• The science behind tree growth, microbiology, and ecosystem restoration.
• Why the future of memorialization is moving towards eco-conscious alternatives.

Learn more and see how to get involved: https://livinglegacyforest.com

Don’t forget to subscribe to Psychic Matters for more inspiring stories of transformation, consciousness, and creativity.

 

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Episode 121 Resources

Warren Roberts Links:
https://livinglegacyforest.com
https://www.facebook.com/livinglegacyforest/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3aDohvY5Y8Hr2oviiH-gw

 

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Transcript

VO: Psychic Matters with Ann Théato. The top ranked spirituality podcast.

 

Ann: My guest today is someone whose life's work brings comfort, transformation, and hope in the face of loss. Warren Roberts is the visionary founder of Living Legacy Forests, an extraordinary initiative that allows us to become part of a living, breathing forest when we die, by turning our ashes into the nourishment for trees.

 

Working alongside scientists and environmentalists, Warren and his team have developed a method to detoxify human ashes and use them to regenerate native forests across Australia. But Warren's work is so much more than environmental innovation. It's a movement rooted in legacy, healing and love. His mission is to change the way we view death, grief, and memorialization by creating masterplanned forests that become sacred places of beauty, biodiversity, and spiritual connection.

Living Legacy Forests is already helping communities across Australia transform cemeteries into thriving ecosystems. In today's episode, we'll explore Warren's journey, the science behind his groundbreaking work, the spiritual and emotional impact of these living memorials, and how intuition and synchronicity have guided him every step of the way. Warren Roberts, welcome to Psychic Matters.

 

Warren: Thank you. It's good to be here. You're, you're good at this. I, I enjoy hearing you, hearing you speak and tell stories, so I'm looking forward to this and thanks for having me here.

 

Ann: Uh, it's great to have you here, Warren, and your legacy that you're leaving behind is really incredible. So, what I wanted to ask you first was: human ashes are normally very toxic to plant life, are they not? But you've worked with scientists to create a formula which allows the ashes to nourish the trees instead. So how did that come about?

 

Warren: It came about, well, I guess I, I would've been in my late twenties and my best friend died suddenly, and I dealt with, my loss at the time by avoiding feeling things. And, and it worked for a little bit. And people would say at the funeral they'd say, "Hey, are you, are you okay Warren?" And I said, "Oh, it's great, I haven't even cried." And so, um, in, in reality, I was just avoiding feeling the grief and the loss and, um, it worked for a little bit, but I, as time continued, I just became depressed and numb and, you know, it's, it's like trying to play a piano with one note. You know, the longer you play it, the more repetitive it is, the worse it is. And my world became grey and dull and numb through the playing, through the limiting of my emotions to just a couple of high notes. Until one day, I went for a walk and I started looking at nature and being amazed by nature, looking at flowers and going, wow, you know? And every time I looked at a flower, I wasn't just looking at a flower, I was allowing myself to feel the joy of looking at a flower and the amazement of how the flower opens and smells, and I was, and I didn't understand what was happening at that time. So, I just spent, I think in one year I spent like 10,000 hours in nature, just immersed in nature, loving nature, loving being alive. And every time I was looking at a flower, I was slowly but surely giving myself the keys on the piano back. I was giving myself my feelings back and allowing myself to feel, and life became a symphony again, one note at a time, one flower at a time. And I became alive again and, and excited to be alive again. And then one day I felt the, the dark, heavy notes that I'd been avoiding, and I just cried for the first time in seven years. I just cried and cried. But the amazing thing was, is that it felt amazing to cry, and I'd been avoiding feeling this grief and the loss, and I'd been avoiding crying and it felt so good to cry because I wasn't numb anymore.

And in this place of feeling more alive than I ever had before in my entire life. That's where the idea came to me. Boom. And I was like, wow. Imagine, imagine if people could become trees and imagine if, instead of people connecting to what they lost, and as a consequence of losing someone and being afraid to feel again, they could connect to the beauty that that person's life created and they could have a greater appreciation for being alive, a deeper sense and a greater capacity to love, even though they know they're gonna lose it. And you know, from that day onwards, I told all the people that, that I loved how much I loved them, 'cause I realised I might miss that opportunity like I had with my friend, you know? And, and I had this idea, you know, what if people could become trees? And so, I went to the, the person that created those, those gardens, and I said, I wanna turn people into trees. And he goes, Warren, you can't, you know, human ashes kill trees. That's why they're, they're banned from, you can't scatter them here, they're banned. Um, they've got the same pH as bleach and oven cleaner. They contain a cup of salts. Salts devastate the photosynthesis process. It. It's not like a little bit bad, they're worse for ecosystems than cigarette butts.

So, if you wouldn't scatter three kilograms of cigarette butts, why would you in a, in a, in nature be, and nature's beautiful because the ecosystem's healthy, right?

 

Ann: Yeah.

 

Warren: So, then why, why would you go and scatter something that's worse than cigarette butts in that ecosystem as a way to try to, to honour life when you're degrading the ecosystem that creates the circle of life? So, he goes, but they're banned. But if you did want to do it, this is how you do it. You need to find this type of scientist that works with specific types of fungi and microbiology, and they might be able to help you. And I, I had no idea about science or plants, um, but I just knew that if I didn't do this, that I would be dead inside. And I, I was like, this is my life purpose. I, I want to change the way that people leave the world. And instead of leaving people with a grey, numb world like mine, I wanted people to leave them a world of beauty and colour and richness where people have a much greater capacity to love and live life because they know they're gonna lose it all, they know they're gonna die. And to not take a single second for granted, because you'll lose it all. Not to take people for granted because you'll lose it all. And there's just this amazing life force that that comes with being conscious and present with death. That gave me a new life, gave me the courage to, to start a new life and to risk everything I had on creating this crazy idea when I, when I'd started it, no one was, natural burial wasn't a thing, and everyone just thought I was a crazy guy. You gotta remember this is, I started the business over 10 years ago. It wasn't cool then. You know what I mean? And, uh, I was, I was just a proper madman. So, um, yeah, so that's how it all started. And so, I hired a scientist and we killed hundreds of trees again and again and again. But eventually we found a way to neutralize. The pH of ashes is 12 outta 14, it's almost a million times too high for most plants. So, we created a microbiological treatment that basically the microbes digest the ash and convert it into molecules or nutrients like nitrogen and potassium that help the tree grow. So instead of the tree trying to grow around something that's toxic, it actually becomes a tree and it becomes a tree's thousands of seeds and seedlings, and that's the circle of life. So, eventually we found a way to make it work and it did work. And, as a consequence of it working, I get to like, buy big, beautiful parcels of land, and I get to imagine the most beautiful forests and gardens and flowers imaginable. And then I make it real. And then I get to walk through these forests with people that will become the trees. Like I'm walking through my dreams with people that are participating in creating it with me. And it's, it is the most amazing experience ever. To dream the wildest thing you could imagine, and have the courage to make it real, and it's an absolute gift to create these forests that I'm creating and to share it with so many people.

 

Ann: It's an extraordinary story that you could have created all of that from a place of intense grief, that's the thing. What do you think your friend would say if you were able to speak to him now?

 

Warren: Well, she,

 

Ann: Oh, she, I'm so sorry.

 

Warren: Well, I think that was part of the thing is like I didn't know how to communicate to my friend how much, how special she was to me as a friend, because there's this idea with male and female relationships that it's supposed to be romantic and

 

Ann: Yeah.

 

Warren: I just think friendship is the most important thing on the earth, and I think it's higher than romance. I think you should love your partner as a friend, you know, first and foremost, you should like the person for who they are.

 

Ann: Yeah.

 

Warren: Um, otherwise you're gonna end up in a whole whole lot of trouble. Um, but yeah, so that was, that was my thing. I didn't know how to tell Lauren that, you know, how much she meant to me as a friend, and that meant everything to me and that was part of my loss, I didn't have the capacity to express that. So, from there, here onwards, i've told everyone I love how much I love them, even if it's, you know, just a, a friend that I'm getting to know. Like if I love them, I love them, I tell them.

 

Ann: Yeah, it took you a long time, seven years, you said before you really grieved her loss. That's, that's an awfully long time, isn't it? But it's inspiring, I think for people who are numbed by grief, to think everybody's individual and nobody works to a set pattern when they're grieving and it's okay.

 

Warren: Correct. there's no pattern, there's no formula. But I, you know, I don't know the purpose of life, but I know the purpose of death and then the purpose of death is for us to be acutely aware of how precious life is so that we live it more deeply. Yeah. And, and when we die, we're supposed to pass on that gift of awareness to the people we loved, not limit them and make them afraid to love again, you know? And as far as I could tell, the best way to pass on that gift of being acutely aware of how precious life is, is to become a flower. And when someone looks at a flower and a tree and they go, wow. It's like you're in there and you made it, and you, you change the connection point to how you are remembered.

 

Memorials are about remembrance, right? And, and so how are you gonna be remembered? It's like, well, if you are remembered by your death and your loss, you create grief and suffering and pain. If you're remembered by your life and through gratitude and appreciation of being alive, through flowers and whatnot, then your life becomes a legacy. And there's purpose and meaning. And I just, I truly believe there's great purpose and meaning through death, that it's not some bad thing that happens to us. It's an essential part of life and that's what nature teaches us. Like in nature, death is not the end. It's a new beginning and without death in nature, there's no ecosystem, you know? So, yeah, I'm just trying to reconnect all of that.

 

Ann: It's beautiful. It's just so beautiful. I wanna go back to something that you said that you sort of brushed over and I was like, what?! You said, "Oh yeah and I hired a scientist". Like, well, hold on, how did that happen? ''Cause you've got this idea; someone said you need a specific type of scientist in order to create what is now the Living Legacy Forest. How did that happen? 'Cause that's obviously a really key part in your story.

 

Warren: Well, I guess, at that age, I was successful and I probably could have retired at that age.

 

Ann: Doing what? Warren,

 

Warren: I was a property developer.

 

Ann: Right.

 

Warren: And I was a property developer because I was fascinated and enamoured with the idea that you could imagine something and make it real.

 

Ann: Right.

 

Warren: That's the sole reason why I loved property. I was just like; you can imagine something and make it real. Wow, you know, and I'm still absolutely fascinated that you can imagine something and make it real. And so, for me, property was that way for me to express that, that opportunity but I was jaded. Because, you know, as a property developer, I was chopping down trees to create housing estates. And I was happy that I was creating, but I wasn't excited about what I was creating. And one day I bought this farm that was become a housing estate and um, as I was about to drive out this big eagle lands down between me and the gate and, uh, its wings were as wide as they could, I'd never seen a bird in the wild that close. And it was just a, a voice inside me agreed with me that I would never do that again. And that I would use my power and ability to create what I imagined, to create what's in my heart and to create what I truly want in the world and I guess I'd had the idea, but I also avoided committing to making it real in the world for a long time. I'd had the idea and I just, I'll just stay in my safe place and I'll, you know, I'll do what, what makes me feel safe and comfortable. And then I guess the eagle was the tipping point for me because the voice was my truth and it spoke to me and that was just one of the points where I just really committed to, I guess I sacrificed the safety and I sold my house and um, committed to basically bringing it into the world and I, I went from having security and comfort to basically having a business that lost money for a couple of years and having no security.

And I had my first kid and it was still losing money and I was terrified. And, but it's, it's so beautiful that all of those challenges just force you to grow and make you who you need to be, you know? Um. Yeah.

 

Ann: And so, thank you for explaining all of that, 'cause that's really interesting to hear a little bit more about your background. So, coming back to the scientists, you decide you're gonna do this, you need to work out how to make a person into a flower or a tree or, or something, um, something beautiful that grows, uh, where did you find the scientist? How did you go about doing that? How did you find that person?

 

Warren: When I was crying in, in the park and that idea came to me, you know, just like bang, like this flash and I was just like, wow, this is what I have to do. Then I went to the, the director of the Botanic Gardens, his name's Tim Entwisle, you know, an an amazing horticulturalist and I told him what I wanted to do and he said, this is how you gotta do, go talk to this lady. That's the beautiful thing about this journey. It, it's this ability to, you have to not know what you're doing and you have to follow your heart and just trust that the doors will open to you and you've gotta trust that every time you fail or you get rejected or it doesn't work out that it's exactly the right things happening. You know what I mean? And you, you might not like the experience of growth, but that's how it works.

 

Ann: There's always, things that are hidden from us 'cause we can't see the greater picture. That's my belief., Setbacks can sometimes be a good thing, even though they don't feel it at the time. Um, so you hire your scientists and you work together and you said you killed a lot of trees in your endeavours, obviously not trying to kill the trees, talk to us a little bit about that process then. What were you doing? Were you taking human ashes or how, how did it work?

 

Warren: Yeah. Well, we had to use, we used some human ashes. We used some animal ashes and, we knew that we didn't want to destroy the ashes with things like acids and just break it down. We knew that we didn't want the tree to just grow around the ashes. You know, we could have done like the biodegradable sort of concept, where they say it's in a biodegradable urn but it's basically the container biodegrades, but the ashes are still toxic, you know? That's the most common version of this in the world, it's like, it's no different putting the ashes in like a Cornflakes box. The Cornflakes box biodegrades, but the ashes are still toxic. So yes, it's biodegradable, but it's probably worse for plants than putting in plastic 'cause then the plants, the plants get exposed to the salt and the high pH. Um, so we were like, we don't wanna do that. We don't want acids to destroy it. We knew that we needed to use microbiology and like in Japan, I think they've found ways to digest, turn plastic into, organic matter again, using microbiology and the right ones in the right environment can digest it. And the same with heavy metals. And it's the same with cremated ashes, with the right, microbiology, you can digest it and convert it into nutrients, and that's what took time. That's what took years and years, is finding the right environment and the right composition to be able to break down the ashes specifically for, for that environment.

Um, and it was a, just a great relief when it finally did work because, um, I guess, you know that you can make it and that it, that it was, um, I guess the craziness was worth it.

 

The real thing started when I was 18. I was at a friend's birthday party and I was crying. This guy comes up to me and he goes, why are you crying, kid? And I was like, I've ruined my life, I can't get into university, can't do what I want. and he's like, what do you want to do? And I said, property, I wanna create what I can imagine. I was excited by it. And he said, look around at all your friends that got the grades, that got the grades to get into any university they want. And he, and he says most of them don't want something that badly, that they cry when they don't get it. He goes, you don't realise that you've got something that's valuable. You want something so badly that you cry when you don't get it. A lot of people don't have that in their life. And I'm like, yeah, that doesn't help me at all. You know, I'm still stuck. And he goes, he goes, listen, for you, the most important thing is just to follow your heart and never take your foot off the path.

 

And I go, it still doesn't help me. And he goes, okay, okay, thick kid, um, apply to TAFE, which is like pretend university in Australia. You'll get into that and once you finish that, get into university. And once you finish that, apply for your job. He just said the most important thing is to follow your heart and never take your foot at the path. And he goes, challenges will happen, but if you stay on that path, you'll get there. I was like, I can do that. He gave me a path to do and he told me to follow the heart, and he goes, listen, I'm the, I'm the CEO of Heinz and fast design, I know what I'm talking about, I manage some of the biggest companies in the world, take my advice. So, I took his advice and I went to TAFE. I went to university, got my dream job and the, and lots of failure along the way. Terrible at TAFE, terrible at university. And I was in my dream job and I was about to get fired. And the before I got fired, he gave me a final warning and I was just like, follow your heart, and I trusted that and I did it my way in the business and it created a huge amount of success finally, so avoided being fired. And at that success, we sat down at this big dinner table and everyone that was part of the, the organizations that, that came together to make the deal happen, everyone was sitting there except for one seat, was empty. I knew that in that moment, that guy, when I was 18, his words took eight years to get me to that seat. And as I'm sitting in that seat, I, I would just wish that that person was there and I could thank him. And then he sat down next to me, oh no, across the table in that seat. The guy that gave me the words.

 

Ann: Unbelievable.

 

Warren: He was in the company we did the deal with and I didn't even know. And I got to thank him, and he's now my chairman. So...

 

Ann: it's beautiful. I love that story.

 

Warren: Yeah. So, I got, I got to thank him and then I just basically said, this is, you know, this is meant to be, you're here and this is my dream. I wanna create this, this turn people into trees and can you help me? And he jumped on board and that was all part of it.

 

Ann: Amazing, amazing story. And thanks so much for sharing, it's really inspiring. So, I have heard of forests here in England whereby when you die, your body is not allowed to be embalmed, but you can be buried whole within a coffin, a special topic of coffin, in a forest and a tree will be planted by that coffin, and that's like a living forest, which is really beautiful. I have friends whose parents are buried in such places, and it's beautiful 'cause every tree represents a person's life. Um, but how does yours work then, if the person becomes the tree? How that work?

 

Warren: So, at nighttime, trees excrete a clear liquid called exudate. That clear liquid, if the soil is alive, it tells the microbiology in the soil what it needs to grow the next day. The microbiology reads that soil and then converts the organic matter around it into the nutrients that the tree needs. So, there's an intelligent exchange between the soil and the tree. And at that point in time, the microbiology converts the cremated remains, and then, the, the tree takes it up through the mycelium and it becomes the tree and helps it grow. Then it becomes a tree of seeds and seedlings, and that's the circle of life.

 

So, that's exactly how it works, it happens at nighttime. Um, the nighttime is the right time, and um, it happens through an intelligent exchange. So, you become part of that intelligent exchange between the soil and the tree. Is that, is that did I answer it right or is that...

 

Ann: yeah, I mean that's information I didn't know, and I'm sure my listeners didn't know either, but physically, what happens to the ashes? Are they sprinkled onto the earth?

 

Warren: Oh, no, no, they, they're planted into a hole with the tree's roots so that they feed the trees roots. If you, if you put something on top of the ground, there's no anaerobic digestion, so can't get converted into organic matter or nutrients to become the tree. So, first of all, things need to be below the ground for anaerobic digestion. But second of all, if the environment isn't right, the microbes can't convert the organic matter. That's why you find skeletons thousands of years later still, still in intact, you need the right environment. And so, with, natural burial, which I think is beautiful and awesome and, we support it, one of the challenges with that is that the human body creates a huge amount, it can create a lot of methane, through decomposition, and that can burn the roots of and kill a tree. So the, I think you typically, you probably wanna wait a while before you planted that tree.

 

Ann: Right. That's interesting.

 

Warren: Depending on the soil type. Yeah.

 

Ann: And so, somebody who's listening to this, who thinks this is just such a won..., which of course I think is such a wonderful, beautiful thing to do, to commemorate somebody's life once they've gone, is there some ceremony that takes place while the ashes are put in with the tree? Or do they hand the ashes over to the company, 'cause you can't have everyone just willy-nilly planting trees, 'cause the ashes would've to be treated and

 

Warren: Yeah.

 

Ann: I'm just trying to get my head around the process.

 

Warren: No, well, we treat the ashes with microbiology and then we plant the treated ashes as a nutrient at the tree's roots. When we plant the tree, um, you know, typically we involve the family in the, of putting the, at the treated ashes with the tree and the roots. Every tree gets a plaque. Um, and, you know, during the ceremony, we don't I can't stand how people that don't know the person, they pretend to tell stories about the person. Like I, I adamantly detest that. So, when we do ceremonies, we never pretend to know the person, tell stories about the, we get the people in the ceremony, tell the stories about how that person left a legacy in the world and how they touch their lives and how that still lives on. And that's kind of the, the essence of the act, right. We are planting a tree to acknowledge how that person's life lives on in ours. And if someone was an adventurous spirit, then we are still having adventures after them. And if someone was a, had a humorous spirit, we're still telling jokes after them, you know? And, and I, I guess I also like that part of the ceremony 'cause the word spiritual or spirit has so many interpretations and I think it's, it's a really, it's a very relevant one 'cause you're in ceremony and it's a, it's a funeral, right? So, it's a funeral right, it's a ritual. So, you're in ceremony, it is a ritual, but you're, there's a such a beautiful, common and grounded understanding of the word spirit and the application of it that everyone understands, you know. If it's Christmas time and if you're a bit stingy, you're a mean spirited. And if you're generous, you are, you're, you're a giving spirit, right? And, and there's this, there's this really grounded understanding or where we see that person's spirit and the way that they live on in our world and the act of planting a tree, a living legacy tree, is the act to acknowledge all the way that that person's life lives on in our world and how they touched our lives. So, that's the spirit of our ceremony, and that's how we do it. At each tree, there's a, there's a plaque, and the plaques have a symbol of the person becoming a tree. And every day when the sun sets on the tree, it aligns with the plaque and then projects the sunlight, projects the symbol of the person becoming onto the tree, and then that shows the connection of that tree and that person and how they're connected to the universe, you know, as a whole, and the sun as creator.

 

Ann: It's so beautiful. It sounds so beautiful. Can people choose which tree they have or you are planting a forest so you keep to the same type of tree?

 

Warren: Good question. Well, I mean, so you can choose pretty much any tree that suits the area. Um, most people choose a family tree and have multiple people added to the same tree over time.

 

Ann: Oh, you can do that. How do you, how do you add another person if the tree's roots are in the ground?

 

Warren: Well, there's lots of roots. There's lots of roots and lots of room. Room for room for treated ashes. And most people buy a family tree with multiple people added over time.

 

Ann: Wow, that's beautiful, isn't it? Everyone gathers together in the one tree, the family tree, literally.

 

Warren: Yeah, and um, you know, like I planted my tree with my kids. When I do die that's probably gonna be one of the days that I wish I could be there for them the most.

 

Ann: Yeah.

 

Warren: The tree that we planted with our own hands will be there for them. And there's something that I touched that's gonna live on in the world that I touched with them and their hands were on that tree and we did it together. And um, yeah, there's something cool about it.

 

Ann: It's really cool. It's, it's, it's more than cool. It's, it's beautiful. I think I said in my introduction, you know, it's a movement. It's, it's amazing and it's, it touches people in so many different ways. Warren, what's your vision for Living Legacy Forests? At the moment where are they? I know they're in Australia, but are they in other places?

 

Warren: I mean, at the, at the moment, they're only around Australia. I, I expect in the next 12 months to, to finish setting up, you know, Australia as a, as a national operation and, um, start bringing them to UK, America and Asia. Most cities in the world have a cemetery footprint, two to three times the size of their city. So, take, take the City of London for example, right? Take all the cities in the world and then double them. That's how big of a graveyard footprint we've created as a planet in the last 200 years.

 

Ann: Explain graveyard footprint.

 

Warren: So, imagine the, the size of the city of London, city of Melbourne, city of Sydney. That's the footprint of the city

 

Ann: yes.

 

Warren: Of the central business district. Now, double that size if you put all the graves of that city together, the total graveyard footprint is typically two to three times the size of the city, of the, the central business district area. So, we are, we are literally burying the planet and at the moment, that's gonna be our legacy, right, it's, it's terrify, it's absolutely terrifying. What's happening, you know, like we're trying to honour life by chopping down animals, trees. The trees that create oxygen and give us the life where we breathe and create habitat for wildlife. We're gonna, we're trying to honour life, but chopping life down. It's madness. Uh, you know, my ancestors are buried in graves and I'm not trying to be disrespectful to them or anyone else's, but you know, there comes at time a point in time when you just have to sort of look around and say, well, you know, some of these ideas, um. Where did they come from and what were they trying to do?

 

And, you know, can we, can we actually do what they were trying to do maybe even better now. You know, a lot's changed since the dark ages and the plague, and a lot of these ceremonies came as a result of mitigating infectious diseases and, and things like that. So, for, for example, a lot of the legislation that's in the world is as a result of, um, someone being buried at the church at the top of the hill, the infectious disease going down the hill. And then spreading to the community of the living. And so, they were like, oh my gosh, we've been spreading infectious diseases. People die, then we spread the infectious diseases. We've gotta, we've gotta change how we do things so that doesn't happen. So, a lot of our, the ways that we've been doing things have been a way of practically responding to challenges of the time. Um, and I think being conscious is the ability to question that and explore that and see if that's really serving us as, as humanity and as people.

 

Ann: Yeah, no, that's a good question. Cremation, of course, has its own toxicity.

 

Warren: Yeah, the, the amount of carbon dioxide that cremation creates, I think it's about 160 kilograms or cubic metres or something like that, and that's offset by the planting of a single tree. So, it neutralises itself. We planted almost half a million offset trees as well. And aside from the memorial trees, we planted hundreds of thousands of offset trees as well. So, we've created a vastly positive impact overall, um, far more than anything else.

 

Ann: It's an extraordinary impact that you, you are having on the world. It must bring you a lot of peace. To, and also, um, not that you, you are looking at your ego thinking, oh, aren't I clever planting all these trees? But it must, it must do something to you inside to make you feel like, I've left something that's so positive for mankind. It's not just about you, it's about everybody and community.

 

Warren: It is a nice feeling because it, it's been so hard and it's been so challenging and I've failed so many times that it's like the reward of struggling and losing ultimately prospering. There's something very satisfying in that. Um, but the biggest satisfying thing is just, you know, dreaming something. It's just something that's, at the time a mad and insane concept, and having the courage to make it real. Now, that's been the most satisfying thing to me. To have a big dream and to make it real.

 

I've had to use my intuition an incredible amount to guide and navigate my way through these obstacles. And it's been a big help to be able to connect to the energy of the vision and stay in a neutral state so I can receive the symbols and the guidance and the intuition of the vision, not my fears, not reality and really tune into it. So, I'm being guided by my vision and that's helped me understand who I am and how I create in the world.

 

Ann: Yeah, yeah. No, it's beautiful. It's an amazing legacy to leave behind. When we spoke, uh, when we were setting up this interview, we had a couple of chats on email, etc., You spoke about sunflowers and fields of sunflowers. What was that? Remind me what that was.

 

Warren: That's one of the, the funnest things we've done. Um, we created a giant sunflower made from 3000 sunflowers. So, imagine like a hundred-meter-long sunflower motive. So, imagine sunflowers planted in the shape of a, of a giant sunflower. So, you could walk through the stem of the sunflower into the face of the sunflower and surrounded by a room of golden sunflowers and um. That's one of my favorite. That's what I mean. Like I get to imagine the mo like to me, nature's the most beautiful thing in the world, and I to be able to imagine beautiful things and then make them real and share them with people, it's the best. Like that's, you know, like

 

Ann: yeah.

 

Warren: It's, it's super awesome. It's super awesome.

 

Ann: That's incredible. So, you, you, if you had a drone above it, you'd be able to see the whole layout then?

 

Warren: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely because, I think when I was like 14, I was in trouble at school and the headmaster's coming around and I, and I'm pretending to read, so I grabbed a book from the shelf and it was William Blake. And, um, I started reading the book to avoid detention, but I just kept on reading it and reading it, 'cause he, he spoke to me and, um, there's this phrase in the book that said like, you know, "to see the world in a grain of sand and Heaven in a wildflower, to hold infinity in the palm of your hand and eternity in an hour." And at that age, I didn't, you know, I, he found the words to express the things that are, that are so hard to touch, if you know what he's talking about, you've had that experience in your life and you didn't think anyone else would be able to touch that experience or you, or you would be able to even talk about it. And I guess as a kid, I, I knew what he was talking about and I'd had that experience and that's what it is like, you know, when I look at a flower and I lose myself in that moment, and for a moment it is infinite. And, and the world is divine, divine for that moment. And to be able to share that experience with people when their hearts are broken and they've lost someone. And they're in a dark moment. For them to take that dark moment and experience the light and their divinity and how they're a part of their divinity and how the person they've lost is a part of that divinity, I'm like, wow. You know, like, wow. You know, to, to connect people to, to Blake's, "see the world in a grain of sand," and to be able to do it through these flowers and these trees and these forests. Wow. You know, that's, I, I couldn't ask for anything more, and that's what I'm really here to do. And nothing excites me more than that.

 

Ann: It's beautiful. Warren, if people are listening and they want to look up your work, they're perhaps living in Australia and they want to use your method of, Living Legacy Forests to commemorate their loved ones, how do they find you and what do they have to do?

 

Warren: Um, if they go to www.livinglegacyforest.com, you'll see a little map of Australia where our current forests are. And some of our coming forest actually our Coming Soon Forest, I better add them, we've got a whole bunch of new forests coming as well. But if you go to https://livinglegacyforest.com, you'll see how it works. You'll see where the forests are and you'd be interested. If you're not from Australia and you want them, you can send me an email and say, Warren, make me a forest in my country. We are and tell me where you are in the country. I'll put on the list and I'll see to it that, um, that we prioritise that in our rollout.

 

Ann: Yeah, that's really beautiful. And people might want to come and work with you, for you, with some of these innovations that you're going to have across the world, so they can just drop you an email about that, I guess?

 

Warren: That would be awesome. I, I love working with, super creative and intuitive people. What I've learned from this is that there's a different way of creating the world than what I was taught and I guess that's why I was excited about this podcast, to talk about the psychic side of things and yeah and, you know, most people think about death and they talk about the psychic side of things, sort of like, you know, talking to loved ones on the other side. But for, for me, I mean, that's also an important part of it, but for me it's been about finding practical ways to use your intuition to create powerfully in the world. And, um, and it's got nothing to do with money or, resources or anything.

 

It's the ability to connect to the energy of what you want to create. And you know, when you're sitting there and you get these ideas and you do dunno where you've, where they've come from, they've come from the ideas that you're creating, but you, if you can hold your attention to those ideas and connect to the energy of them, they're gonna keep on giving you ideas. It was just like learning to tune into the energy of the things that I was holding in my focus and learning to receive how I was being guided.

 

To the degree that, you know, challenges could happen and I could kind of understand the bigger picture, And, after a while I was like, I, I see what's happening. It's like, you gotta do this, not take it personally. And, I mean, so much of what I've done is impossible. Not saying it because like, I'm think that it's a special achievement, more just that it was impossible for me to do without using my intuition in a practical environment. And you know, now, like with my executive team, we sit around and we'll collectively use our intuition to connect to what we wanna create and use it to guide us.

 

I hope more people in the world can use it to create beauty in the world. I mean, imagine if, if there was like a million of mes in the world, we'd live in a completely different place. If I have my way, every city in the world will, will have like tremendously beautiful forests and parks and gardens as the center of their culture.

 

And I just think collectively we can change the way we leave the world and as a species we can reforest the planet instead of bury it. We are on a trajectory where we will bury it if we don't change. We can change and it's easy and everyone benefits from it. So, like I think it's really exciting to realise that it's like sometimes we look at the world and all the challenges and it feels overwhelming, you know? Like you see all the terrible things happening to the world and you just, you think, what can I do, I'm helpless. But then I guess at the same time, you realise that all the things that are happening to the world are, are largely a result of what we are creating. And it doesn't make us helpless. It means that we're a powerful force. If consumerism and our behavior and our choices can sculpt the earth to the degree that we filled up the oceans with plastic in three generations, and we've destroyed most of the Amazon in three generations. Like if you, if you realise like how powerful we are as a species and how much we've changed the earth with just our consumerism and choices, you go, well, imagine what we can do when we turn on the lights and we start becoming trees instead of graves. We can reforest the planet. Imagine what we can do. And you know, so it's like, yeah, it feels overwhelming and powerless sometimes, but I think the reality is, it's like it's powerless because we are powerful and we can create powerfully as a community.

And I'm, I'm excited about it. It's, it's scarey and terrifying at the same time because, you know, I guess you, you look at all the things that are happening and it can, it can get overwhelming and Depressing, but you gotta turn that lead into gold. We're creators and that's what we are here to do.

 

And I guess intuition loves observing a person creating from challenges and obstacles. It's like your, higher mind when you're going through a challenge, it's watching you to see how you respond. And when you respond powerfully and creatively, it sees you and it goes, aha. You are the creator. It talks to you as a creator. If you respond to a challenge as, as a victim, it watches you and then it starts talking to you as a victim. And that's the information that you'll be getting in, in that formation. And so, yeah, I guess these, these are some of the things I've, I've, I've learned from, from creating these forests and creating my vision and creating my will in the world.

 

Ann: It is beautiful, Warren, and thank you so much for coming on to talk to us about everything that you've done, everything that you've created. I think just listening to your words is really inspiring for people to think, okay, what impact am I having in the world? How can I get back in touch with my own creator and go forth and create? I think that's super inspiring.

 

Warren: Oh man, nothing makes me more, more happy. And I think that's why I get frustrated with school sometimes because you see people being coming, disconnected from how they're fascinated in the world, and they just kind of do the thing that they think they're supposed to do to get the grades. And it's like when, when people connect to how they're fascinated in the world, it's like tying what you do to a kite. The fascination is the kite and it lifts you and it takes you over obstacles. When people ask, just think the most important thing, like when my mentor told me to follow my heart, I think my version of that is to follow your fascination and find out how you're fascinated with the world. And, and when you live through that and you act on that, everything you touch with your fascination comes to life. You, you know, you, you bring life to the world when you're fascinated. And, yes, that's my 2 cents on, on people trying to find their way or find their magic in the world, it's, it's hidden in how you're fascinated in it.

 

Ann: So beautiful. Warren Roberts, thank you for joining us today. I'm going to put your, uh, https://livinglegacyforest.com links, etc., into the show notes for the programme, but I just want to wish you all the very, very best with taking your forests all across the world and for everything that's coming afterwards.

 

Warren: Wait, wait. I wanna know, how did you get involved in, in, in Psychic Matters and, um, and what fascinates you?

 

Ann: Yeah, of course, of course. It's interesting, isn't it? Well, again, I um, I had a background as an actress and a voice artist in London.

 

Warren: Ah, yeah, you've got a good voice.

 

Ann: Thank you. And um, but I couldn't find any work. There was no work. And what happened was there was, um, um. Uh, what you call it, something happened in the world where there was no jobs typical in the acting world. Yeah. I think the word I'm looking for is recession. And uh, what happened was all the celebrities who used to voice all the adverts that I used to voice, I used to voice toilet paper and washing powder and cars and face creams and all this, but all the celebrity actors then didn't have any work. So, they dropped down a level and they started hoovering up all the, all those kind of bread-and-butter jobs that I used to do. And um, and then people like me had no work. So, I was left without anything and no way to make a living. So, I thought, well, i'm good at, and I also, I'm also, an actor in radio drama. So, I put it all together and I thought, well, I still love it. I'm still passionate about it. And now we live in a world where we can make our own stuff. So, yeah, that's what I did. So, I started Psychic Matters and I didn't know if it was gonna be any good. I got my friends in and said, Hey, will you, can I. Can I interview you? Let's just start and see where it goes. And now I'm 120, 118 episodes in at this time of recording with you, and it's great. It's now in the top 1% of podcasts worldwide, so it's fabulous.

 

Warren: Wow. I didn't know.

 

Ann: Yeah, I know.

 

Warren: That's amazing. Well done.

 

Ann: Thank you.

 

Warren: There's proof, you're fascinated in it and you followed it and doors opened, you know, it's like there's a magical process in following your heart and your fascination. Doors that don't exist open, you know, and windows that, that are unclear, become clear. Um, and what about the psychic part of it?

 

Ann: Yeah, so the, the psychic part of it, I've always been psychic since I was a child going to school, but I didn't really think about that as a child. I just thought everybody could see shadow people and I thought everybody could tell what was about to happen. So, it was quite a shock to me to find out other people didn't have that or weren't tuned into it. They've got it, but they weren't tuned into it like I was. And when my children were young, I was a single parent on my own with these two children Warren and I was starting to see shadow people in the kitchen and things like that, and I thought I better go and get some advice and guidance. The internet didn't really exist then, as it exists now. There were no podcasts. There was no YouTube to look up a tutorial on this, that, and the other. So, I ended up going to, um, to study. It's a long story, but that's, that's the, that's it in a nutshell. I managed to get to one or two courses. Uh, it was difficult for me to get away because I didn't have any money and I had the two children to look after, and it was very isolating, and that's the reason I started the podcast. For people like me who exist all across the world. We are lucky in the UK we've got a lot of psychic training, a lot of institutions that we can go to and learn, but people across the world don't have that. And that's why I started this podcast as a free resource for them. So, I will interview experts in psychic ability, the psychic mind, mediumistic faculty, and bring their guidance and their wisdom. And my passion is pushing forward the boundaries of human consciousness to redefine the significance of living.

 

Warren: Oh, I love it. Yeah. I love it. Redefine the boundaries of consciousness.

 

Ann: Push forward the boundaries of human consciousness to redefine the significance of living.

 

Warren: I love it. Well, it was, I'm glad it was quite relevant to what we talked about.

 

Ann: Yeah. Yeah.

 

Warren: That's why I was like, you know, like I, I, I'm equally passionate about people like being able to bring their gifts into the world and it kills me the education system. I hate seeing kids that are born to this world and they're fascinated and they come out of it with a degree in something they're not interested in.

 

Ann: Yeah. I know. And often quite broken by that system as well. Yes.

 

Warren: Well, and, and then the more they do that, the less they're listening to the, to be able to do that, you have to cut off from your intuition.

 

Ann: Yes.

 

Warren: You have to ignore it.

 

Ann: That's right.

 

Warren: And then for then, then eventually you just keep on betraying yourself, ignoring yourself to the degree that you can't hear it, and then you wonder why you feel numb and grey, you know? And that's, I guess I've been there, you know?

 

Ann: Yeah. And of course, we know that the intuition is the driving force for everything, so.

 

Warren: Yeah, but the fascination, I think is the, um, it's the ignition for the, for the intuition. It can, it can set your soul on fire and it can bring it to life again.

 

Ann: Yeah.

 

Warren: That's, um, you know, I think yeah, without the, with the fascination, it's some, somehow, it's like, it, it just brings the life force to you. And then the intuition sort of reactivated. Um, do you, do you get the, the ringing in the ears? Do you know what that's about?

 

Ann: Yeah, I do get that sometimes from time to time, uh, nobody knows what it's about, do we? We theosophise, that's all we can do. But a lot of people say it's the presence of spirit. It's the presence of, um, I don't know what it is. So definitely a frequency. We are picking up the energy of something.

 

Warren: Yeah.

 

Ann: It could be anything. And I, I, I don't know.

 

Warren: Well, I have, like, I've, I've tried to like tune in, i've tried to get message, you know, I've tried to like, you know, be, be present when it comes through. You know, it's definitely frequency. It's definitely calming, nice, and it's, maybe it's the sound of a download, I don't know. But you know, I, yeah, I just thought, I figured I'd ask while I've got you here.

 

Ann: Yeah. I dunno the answer to it, but what it does do is it makes us aware, ah, okay, we are more than the human body, there's something else going on. There's so much out there that we don't know. And I think that's beautiful 'cause it re puts us back on the path of following our intuition and keeping that connection to that divine spark within us. That creator within and the creator without.

 

Warren: Yeah. The creator, spirit.

 

Ann: Creator spirit. It's what it's all about. Yeah. It's been brilliant talking to you Warren.

 

Warren: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Lovely, Ann. Lovely.

 

Ann: Yeah, thank you so much and uh, yeah, uh, good luck with everything that you're achieving, it's amazing.

 

Warren: I thank you and, when I come to the UK I'll pop in and have a cup of tea with you.

 

Ann: Definitely, definitely.

 

Warren: Oh yeah. I'll, I'll email you to see where you're at. Thanks, Ann.

 

Ann: I am fascinated by today's conversation with Warren Roberts. What an amazing person doing incredible work. What really stood out to me today was the idea of the creator within, within each one of us, and that even in death, we've got the power to shape and nourish life and through Living Legacy Forests, Warren is offering not just a new way to honour those we've lost, but a deeper way to connect with nature and legacy and that creative force that runs through all of us. Warren, I wanna thank you so much for the work that you do and for sharing it so freely with us today. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. If you've enjoyed this episode, please do press subscribe so you don't miss future episodes that are gonna be equally as marvellous as this one that would be really appreciated. Or put a comment in the, in the space below here and let us both know what you thought of this episode.

 

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